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MINUTES OF THE REGULAR MEETING COUNCIL PRESIDENT GAMBER I d like to welcome all of you to Massillon City Council for Monday, December 3, 2007. We have in attendance with us this evening: Mayor Francis Cicchinelli, Auditor Bill Hamit, Law Director Perry Stergios and Parks & Recreation Director Kenn Kaminski. On the wall to your left are agendas for anyone who wishes to follow the meeting. Also under item #5 on the agenda is where the public can speak on any item that appears on the agenda and then under item #17 is where the public can speak on any item that does not appear on the agenda. I d also like to remind anyone with a cell phone please turn it off or turn it very far down. 1. ROLL CALL Roll call for the evening found the following Council Members present: Tim Bryan, Kathy Catazaro-Perry, Jayne Ferrero, Chuck Maier, Ron Mang, Paul Manson, Dave McCune, Donnie Peters and Tony Townsend. Thus giving a roll call vote of 9 present. 2. INVOCATION COUNCILMAN PETERS Gave the invocation for tonight. 3. PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE COUNCILMAN PETERS – Chairman of the Streets, Highways, Traffic & Safety Committee led those in attendance in the Pledge of Allegiance. 4. READING OF THE JOURNAL COUNCIL PRESIDENT GAMBER Madame Clerk are the minutes of the previous meeting transcribed and open for public viewing (Yes, they are) Are there any additions or corrections to the minutes. If not the minutes stand approved as written. 5. REMARKS OF DELEGATIONS AND CITIZENS TO MATTERS ON THE AGENDA COUNCIL PRESIDENT GAMBER Anyone who would like to make remarks about an ordinance that is on our agenda may do so. Those of you who would like to talk about the rezoning efforts that would be the appropriate time. Mr. Mang has indicated he will request that be moved forward as our first time of business. JAMES HARPER – I live at 1809 Dexter Road. I’m in opposition to the rezoning along Lincoln Way East. Just one comment was about Shearers Foods; Shearers was not speculation. DALE MAURER – I live at 129 25th Street SE, Massillon. When I was up here before I made the comment that with the through the planning commission and city council for all these years we give our side of the story the opposition gives their side of the story. So far we have prevailed and also along with that I wish to I will and I’m sure the neighbors do of Mayor Cicchinelli has backed us 100% all the way through the planning commission and also city council. In regards to the neighborhood he does I think his feeling is that it should not be broken up and put businesses in there. One of other item that we had a meeting in the Mayor’s office with you talking about Verizon people the couple of fellas that was here was from Chicago and at that time I think I’m correct but they said that they eventually looked at 34 places all over the city and couldn’t find a place other than the one that they wanted out there on the highway. To me I think that sounds just a little bit far fetched but never the less that’s what was said. I thank you again and I am not in favor of having it rezoned. Thank you very kindly. PHIL JONES – I live at 131 23rd Street SE. Public hearing was held this evening once again most of council was here so I really don’t have a whole lot to say that you haven’t heard already other than we thank you for your time. Most of these people spoke against the rezoning and we thank you for your consideration. Again, we are all opposed to that. Thank you. ANDREW OSER – 8201 Kellydale Street NW, Massillon, Ohio. Just once again I’d like to reiterate to the council this project will bring some much needed jobs into this community, construction jobs, jobs in the businesses that would occupy the property. Also, once again, I’d like to just reiterate that as the neighbors have pointed out there are some issues that do need to be addressed before construction would take place if this proposal were to be accepted such as rain water, lightings, things like that and drainage. Once again, I would just like to make a point that all those issues must be addressed before construction is done and the proper plan is sited through the engineering department. Also, Mr. Maurer made a point of what was the word you used 34 sites is a little far fetched something to that affect. I just ask that council actually somewhat disregard that comment due to the fact that he has no expertise in that area whatsoever or how they go about doing business. Like I told you before it’s a very extensive process that these companies use to look for property and its not literally its not an arbitrary just pick. Alright, thank you. SCOTT RENZENBRINK – 2027 Lincoln Way East I spoke earlier was against this rezoning. Couple points I want to make one was brought up about the 300 foot radius for the petition that is in the zoning only as for sending out letters it has nothing to do with petitions anybody who lives in any affected area near or around that are able to sign the petitions are accepted in the petition. Also 10 years ago when Mr. Oser sold the property next to our house and had the apartment building I think it was Mr. Heck some of the promises that were made down at zoning or down at the I guess it was a variation was that the building is going to fit into the neighborhood, it’s going to look like the other buildings, it will have a privacy fence around the back. Well, the building faces the opposite direction of course we didn’t see any of this prior to it being built. The building faces the opposite direction, the gas pumps are in the front for the gas meters so they sit right on the front of the building and we have this beautiful lime green fence that goes around the back that’s in disrepair now the pipe is actually coming out of the end half the straps are broken off of it. The guys that cut the grass don’t even trim the weeds around it. So that’s what we get for our privacy fence without a site plan without somebody coming out and actually showing us what’s going to be built there. So again please vote it down thank you very much for your time. CARL OSER – 8201 Kellydale. In regards, I hope council takes notes there was only three families here tonight that spoke in the 300 foot area here that this zoning is supposed to be contingent on. Getting back a little bit this gentleman which is not in the 300 feet you mentioned about the apartment house that was basically Climer brought that on himself on the zoning if he had normal cooperation he would have built a nicer apartment house there a brick building and so forth. He could only build that building 22 foot wide at the time I was going to build one because so many of you people say build multiple family. I got all the papers here that at the corner of 21st and Lincoln Way East same size lot as Heck’s or any of the others through there Tribbetts those lots are 52.5 X 205. I went through a variance and so forth you know how wide I could build an apartment house on the lot 12 foot wide that’s not very sensible is it? That’s what I’m saying with their zonings and so forth. So that stopped an apartment there but like said now Climer could have bought that lot for $6,000.00 he must have been too cheap to buy it. Then after somebody else bought it and built there everybody cries. So that’s the answer to that. Thank you very much. RICK HARPER – I live at 145 22nd Street SE. I am in opposition to rezoning I believe the wisdom in 1985 to give us a buffer zone in that area was a good thing. I don’t believe that it needs changed now purely for speculation. Thank you. MITCHELL GROVE – 2235 Eastwood. I came here to talk about the Legends is this the proper time, this okay? COUNCIL PRESIDENT GAMBER Are talking about the sale of the property? MITCHELL GROVE – Yes. COUNCIL PRESIDENT GAMBER Alright. MITCHELL GROVE – I have several things I want to discuss here. First, I want to know did you give any consideration to what was going to happen to the life members that bought on the assumption that there was going to be 27 holes to life membership. They were sold to set off some of the cost of the additional 9 holes. I spoke to several of the members and we feel that a fair deal for us would be if we are going to sell 9 holes that we get reimbursed a 1/3 of our memberships. I will seek attorney advise if that doesn’t happen. #2, I don’t understand how you can invest roughly $6.8 million dollars and sell it for roughly $2 million. The only thing that loses value that much is a trailer in a trailer park I just don’t see where that’s going to solve your financial problems. I’m not a financial expert but it just doesn’t make sense to me. I think you need to look at to increasing the revenue through better marketing, increasing fees, better hospitality you offer your guests, possibly offering a lot of courses that I play out west they’ll market the course. You play 18 holes and then you play for cart fee for the next 9 holes or 18 holes. I think that works well as far as bringing people in you also have them there the additional 4 to 5 hours where you’re making the money on the food and beverage then. Because you’re not going to stay there we play sometimes for 12 hours of course you’re going to spend money when you’re out there. I mean that’s just common sense. There’s been so many mistakes made at the course and I’m going to give you an example we used to I never played there personally under a nickels league but I play in a league Monday, Tuesday and Friday. We send in roughly $15,000 the union sends to each course and then we use that $15,000 each time we go there if we have 10 players x amount comes off the balance. Well, they had a league at the Legends and this is what the Legends decided to do because at the end of the year if we have $4,000 to $5,000 carry over they just move it on next year and we send another $15,000 in. Well, Legends decides that at the end of the year well instead of just carry it over we’re keeping your $4.000. Well, so then you lose the $4,000 you get the $4,000 but guess what they do well, of course they take their league somewhere else. So now you lose the $15,000 that you could have been making some money on the $5,000 but you had a carryover plus you lose the $15,000 then for the next year. I mean that’s just not good business; I mean you just tick people off by doing that. You’ve had rude people down there working that people don’t want to come back. I was in there the other day buying some shirts because of the internet. Now if I come into your place of… COUNCIL PRESIDENT GAMBER Excuse me, if I could have you sort of wrap it up and make your comments. MITCHELL GROVE – Okay, if I came into your place of business and you’re getting in my pocket would you be polite to me? I think you would if you want my money; you have the guy that’s managing the place down there he doesn’t introduce himself, he doesn’t say anything. I’ll be honest with you I could be walking through a desert and wouldn’t buy a bottle of water off of him. You’ve got to be polite to people when they come down there you’ve got to get them to want to come back. People come there because they’re treated right you know, I mean there’s been so many mistakes made down there that I think you should look at some outside management possibly and see if somehow you can turn the place around. It’s an asset if its run properly I believe and I don’t believe its been run properly and I think you should look at all options before you make another dumb mistake. That’s all I have to say. MIKE GRAHAM – 2535 Marylou Street. I’m also a lifetime member at the Legends. Over the last year and half I just like to say that the staff out there Aaron Webb, Craig Immel they’ve transformed that course from a very poor course to what I think is one of the best courses in Stark County. Now is the time when you’re going to get more play out there and now is time not to take it from 27 holes to 18 holes. I think before you decide to do this you need to look at your projected revenue loss by doing that. You’re going to lose a 1/3 of your members, you’re going to lose 1/3 of your leagues, you’re going to lose a 1/3 of your available tee times, you’re going to lose a lot of outings, your revenue is going to go down substantially if you cut it down to 18 holes. You’re going to take probably a $4 million dollar lost from what you’ve put into that course. You put $6 million dollars into to turn it into 18 holes and now you’re going to sell it for $2. If that course loses a $100,000 a year it will take you 40 years to lose what you’re going to lose in this one deal. So I just think before you do it you need someone to come in and project the amount of revenue that you’re going to lose by doing this and compare that to whatever type of games you might think you’re going to have. Because this decision isn’t something that you can change. It’s going to be a permanent decision you’re going to have permanent revenue loss and you’re going to go the whole course is going to change permanently and that’s going to be 20, 40 years down the road. Thank you. COUNCIL PRESIDENT GAMBER Mr. Maier and Mrs. Catazaro-Perry had your hands up may I ask can you hold that off until we get to the discussion on those items on our agenda.? COUNCILMAN MAIER – Well, I wanted to answer something here. It was said by Mr. Jones it said that most of the council was here. I wasn’t here but I was at calling hours that were this evening and they won’t be having calling hours tomorrow evening so I assume that’s a one time thing that I needed to go to. I was a little bit late for the session on the hearing session. Just wanted to make that clear and I feel offended by somebody pointing that out that I wasn’t here or a hearing because I was at a funeral calling hours. Thank you. COUNCILWOMAN CATAZARO-PERRY Well, my question is for the gentleman that just spoke if they’re going to be here I can hold my comments and questions for them until. 6. INTRODUCTION OF ORDINANCES AND RESOLUTIONS COUNCIL PRESIDENT GAMBER Mr. Mang, you have a request? COUNCILMAN MANG – I have a request that we bring Ordinance No. 52 – 2007 as the first item of business this evening. COUNCIL PRESIDENT GAMBER Is there any objection to moving that item forward? If not Madame Clerk would you please read the title to Ordinance No. 52 – 2007. ORDINANCE NO. 52 2007 BY: COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT COMMITTEE Amending Section 1151.02 of the Massillon Code of 1985 rezoning a certain tract of land from RM-1 Multiple Family Residential to B-1 Local Business. Being known as Lots 4332 thru 4339, located on the south side of Lincoln Way East between 22nd Street SE and 23rd Street SE. The applicant is Carl Oser. The applicant proposes a commercial development. The total project site is 1.81 acres. COUNCILMAN MANG – Most of the comments have been pretty much delivered on Ordinance No. 52 there’s a couple though that I need to refresh council a little bit on. You know when we started the community development committee here not when it was started but when this community development committee started two years when we went into rezoning we decided that we wanted to know who, where and when and what was going to be in the rezoning. We wanted to know the name of the business and etc and we followed that pretty much through until we arrived at the downtown area. The downtown area when that was brought up it was discussed “well, that’s a different thing it’s in a business section and we know businesses are going to go in there” and it was left at that. Then we had the rezoning out on 1st Street and we deliberately did not ask them matter-of-fact I think the only question was asked of them was that they intended to keep the existing business. I’m not sure if we got a positive answer but I think they said they thought that was going to go in there. Again, no one named names or did whatever; so I think that we need to recognize that fact here that we have dropped that from the criteria and I think part of that and this was brought up I think in the city or we’ve talked about it that most of this will be done by the site plan review committee who will indeed look at what is being presented and will determine whether that fits the area in as much as drainage, egress, regress all those things they will address. I only bring that up as to make sure that we’re all on the same page and that is why there was no comments or questions by me any point on this last rezoning here about what business was going to be located here. Mrs. Catazaro-Perry do you have any comments? COUNCILWOMAN CATAZARO-PERRY Yes, thank you Mr. Mang. I do want to say that you know we all voted recently on the Genshaft sale. We had no idea and we still have no idea what is going to go in there as far as a business. I know Mrs. Ferrero asked about two weeks ago if we had any update and we have not had an update still. I think we need to move forward I think Mr. Oser brings great businesses to the City of Massillon and we’re missing the boat. I think that there’s jobs that we’re missing, there’s revenue that we’re missing and as head of finance I sure know that we need revenue streams. I know that the neighbors have some opposition to the rezoning I understanding that. But I don’t think that Mr. Oser is going to put a business in there that’s going to truly affect their homes the way that they think. Sometimes it’s hard to sit in my seat to make decisions for you. I’m trying to make the best decisions for the city overall as well as your neighborhood. You know sometimes you’re not going to like my decisions but I have to do what I think is right for the future of the City of Massillon. I do think we’re going to see a recession in the future I really, really do. I think if we don’t jump on this and take control of what we bring into Massillon we’re not going to see some businesses for a while. I hope I’m wrong I really hope I’m wrong but I think that we are going to see a recession here in the future. I would like us to really look at that the vision for Massillon and make this a yes vote tonight. So that’s my comments, thank you. COUNCIL PRESIDENT GAMBER Are there any other comments or discussion on the ordinance, Mrs. Ferrero? COUNCILWOMAN FERRERO Well, as an elected official I think that I was put in this seat by the people of our community. I think the people come here and they speak loud and clear about this. If Mr. Oser would have came with some concrete plans the issue out at the Genshaft even though we don’t know there were some concrete plans and there was a developer that came and addressed us. He came and he talked to us he told us exactly what was going to happen he’s going to come before council before anything goes much further. But Mr. Oser never comes with any kind of a concrete plan never. No developers ever come and speak on his behalf and I would just like to see something a little more concrete before we go against that neighborhood. Because if we rezone anything at all can go in there, anything at all and you’re just opening up a can of worms for those people in that neighborhood. We’re here as elected officials to represent the people and I think a lot more people are speaking louder against this than are speaking for it. COUNCILMAN BRYAN I came here tonight as I was thinking about this issue and thought that I want to give all the sides a fair chance at a fair hearing. I voted against this issue before but I really wanted to find a way actually to support Carl and I’ll tell you why. Because I think in the long run somehow some kind of commercial development has to be done on that piece of land. It’s never going to be no one’s ever going to be building houses there again. I don’t think multi families is a good solution, but like Mrs. Ferrero said if we had and like Mr. Manson said if we had a developer come in and say yes we have an option, we have a tenant that’s very interested if you guys will change the zoning you know we could go forward I’ll come back to you in a month or two with let you know who the tenant is. That’s what happened down at Massillon Marketplace. Now what maybe holding Massillon Marketplace up you know may be all the hoops that the city has to go through to get that property cleared up. I don’t know but in any case I’m going to end up voting no again and in a way I wish I could vote yes, but if there was some kind of a developer involved who said “yes, we have a couple very interested parties; we have an option on the property we’re ready to go we’re going to build and lease” whatever but right now all we have is just you know there may well be some businesses that want to build buildings in that area but we don’t know what they’re going to be. I’m done. COUNCILMAN PETERS My opinions or views have never changed on this zoning change. I do support Mr. Oser’s want to rezone but again and Kathy I’m picking but down at Genshaft we’re not talking about 20 or 30 residents that are going to affected. Because I mean these people you know have what they call their homes and they cherish them and I think we need to respect that. I agree with Tim for the second time in two years that eventually this land is going to be rezoned and something is going to be developed there and I remember Mr. Bryan telling the people to prepare yourself because this is going to happen. I want it to happen but I am not going to vote for a zoning change that’s going to affect these people with no guarantees of what’s going to go in there. I’m not going to do that to them I wouldn’t expect them to do that to me. So I’m going to vote no also on that tonight for that reason. COUNCIL PRESIDENT GAMBER Alright, we’ll go back to Mr. Mang in a moment, again, this is one of those oddly written ordinances the planning commission had voted not to approve the zone change. The ordinance requests an overturning of that decision it takes 7 votes a yes vote will overturn and permit the rezoning and a no vote will not. Mr. Mang? COUNCILMAN MANG – I believe Mr. Manson had another question. COUNCILMAN MANSON – Yeah, I just wanted to make one more comment on this. I’ve had some people come to me along the way and say “you know take a ride out Lincoln Way and look how most of Lincoln Way is developed business wise” and I guess you would have to go into Perry Heights and look at. Although I see Perry Heights making some improvements out there I really do not want to copy what Perry Heights has done out along Lincoln Way. I think its been kind of haphazard I still would like to see you know at some point in time us having a nice project come in up there with maybe something a bank and a professional building and I would actively try to help that work through in the neighborhood. But I will be voting no for this. COUNCILMAN MANG moved for bring Ordinance No. 52 – 2007 forward for a vote, seconded by Councilman Townsend. ORDINANCE NO. 52 – 2007 WAS DEFEATED BY A ROLL CALL VOTE OF 6 NO, 3 YES. CATAZARO-PERRY, MAIER AND MANG VOTED YES. ORDINANCE NO. 137 2007 BY: COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT COMMITTEE Authorizing the Mayor of the City of Massillon, Ohio, to enter into an agreement with Bill Hawk, Inc., to provide an economic development “incentive grant” to assist the company in relocating from Dover, Ohio to Massillon, and declaring an emergency. COUNCILMAN MANG Last Monday night we had a number of people in the audience and they were all here speaking about economic development incentive grant that the Mayor had spoke to them about. We had the gentleman here from Bill Hawk and he spoke about their business and the fact that I believe they are now moved into the business and very likely they have started their first day in business down there. He explained to us it was a rather difficult decision because they were moving from Dover moving from where Bill Hawk, Inc., started and there was a considerable amount of monies that would be needed to move the type of equipment that they had to this site. So they were more than happy that the Mayor discussed with them an incentive grant of $10,000. That’s why its before you tonight we had the opportunity to discuss this with the individual I didn’t find any comments that were negative this past Monday night. So I encourage you to vote for an affirmative for Ordinance No. 137 because I will be asking for suspension of the rules which I had indicated at the public hearings. COUNCILMAN PETERS I have a question for Mr. Mang if possible. Monday night at the work session I specifically asked if we were going to pass all these businesses as one ordinance and I was told yes. Now I look at the agenda and every one of them on a separate ordinance. COUNCILMAN MANG I can not answer that question. But I will with the assistance of the law director if the president would ask the law director to come to the microphone. LAW DIRECTOR STERGIOS – Considering the fact although it does make for a lot more voting I thought it was better to have each one as a separate grant because they are all separate agreements. Since I wasn’t present at the work session I didn’t hear you make that ask that question. No, I told Mary Beth to do them all separate. COUNCILMAN PETERS Okay, I specifically ask that questions that’s why it kind of through me when I seen all these on here. COUNCILMAN BRYAN I have a question for the honorable Mayor. You when you proposed we did a tax abatement for the same firm didn’t we just checking my memory here. When you proposed that you also mentioned that we would be doing you would be asking us to do this economic development grant back then didn’t you? (Yes, I did.) So this isn’t something that’s come up in the last couple of months. MAYOR CICCHINELLI – No, Mr. Mang said it was discussed at the time that the company was looking at different locations. So it was earlier on in the process. COUNCILMAN BRYAN That’s how I remembered it I just wasn’t sure. Thank you. COUNCILMAN MANG moved for suspension of the rules and passage, seconded by Councilman McCune. The rules were suspended by a roll call vote of 9 yes. ORDINANCE NO. 137 – 2007 WAS PASSED BY A ROLL CALL VOTE OF 9 YES. ORDINANCE NO. 138 2007 BY: COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT COMMITTEE Authorizing the Mayor of the City of Massillon, Ohio, to enter into an agreement with Cold Headed Fasteners & Assemblies, Inc., to provide an economic development “incentive grant” to assist the company in relocating to Massillon, and declaring an emergency. COUNCILMAN MANG Again, Mr. Lee was here from Cold Headed Fasteners & Assemblies, Inc., and spoke to us and his indications were at that time is that the facilities they have on the east side of town or the west side of town was getting to the point where it was not easy for him to manage or the business had been growing that was looking to do something. The Harsh Avenue location was available to him and the Mayor had offered to him a $7,500 incentive grant to help him make the move and it would also I don’t the jobs were ever a contention but it certainly I wouldn’t jeopardize the 15 jobs that were there it would give them a little bit more room to work and obviously give him maybe a little bit more so they can expand their business. But I will be asking for suspension of the rules. COUNCILMAN MANG moved for suspension of the rules and passage, seconded by Councilman McCune. The rules were suspended by a roll call vote of 9 yes. ORDINANCE NO. 138 – 2007 WAS PASSED BY A ROLL CALL VOTE OF 9 YES. ORDINANCE NO. 139 2007 BY: COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT COMMITTEE Authorizing the Mayor of the City of Massillon, Ohio, to enter into an agreement with M & K Supermarket to provide an economic development “incentive grant” to assist the company in relocating to Massillon, and declaring an emergency. COUNCILMAN MANG Mr. Hussein and his wife were both here this past Monday night and talked to us about what they are doing I should say what are they are doing up there. They’re putting in a filling station and the monies that we’re talking about here are $5,000 is to help them in a needed storm drainage and catch basin insulation. These are mostly all things that are being taken to help them meet the city requirements or the plan to have construction up there. As you probably know this something that the people on the south side of town specifically in the east side have been asking and wanting was a filling station. As I understand Mr. Hussein is going to do that and that is what this $5,000 is for. Again, I will be asking for suspension of the rules. COUNCILMAN MANG moved for suspension of the rules and passage, seconded by Councilman Townsend. The rules were suspended by a roll call vote of 9 yes. ORDINANCE NO. 133 – 2007 WAS PASSED BY A ROLL CALL VOTE OF 9 YES. ORDINANCE NO. 140 2007 BY: COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT COMMITTEE Authorizing the Mayor of the City of Massillon, Ohio, to enter into an agreement with Donna Williams Insurance Services to provide an economic development “incentive grant” to assist the company in relocating to Massillon, and declaring an emergency. COUNCILMAN MANG Again, Donna Williams was here this past Monday night and explained to council that at her present location on Lake Street which she is renting her business has grown to the point that she needs to find a larger quarters and she has found that down on South Erie at 248. The building was built back in 1900’s and it needs quite a bit of work to bring it up to code and for that is what the $2,500 she is asking for and the Mayor has offered. Again, I will asking for suspension of rules and bring Ordinance No. 140 forward. COUNCILMAN MANG moved for suspension of the rules and passage, seconded by Councilman McCune. The rules were suspended by a roll call vote of 9 yes. ORDINANCE NO. 140 – 2007 WAS PASSED BY A ROLL CALL VOTE OF 9 YES. ORDINANCE NO. 141 2007 BY: COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT COMMITTEE Authorizing the Mayor of the City of Massillon, Ohio, to enter into an agreement with Total Production Inc.,/Erie Street Leather to provide an economic development “incentive grant” to assist the company in relocating to Massillon, and declaring an emergency. COUNCILMAN MANG Mr. Smith was here on Monday evening and he explained to us that he was bringing his company here Total Productions Inc., which is a web development company and move that into the city. At the same he wanted to start up a leather business which he referred to as Erie Street Leather. The incentive grant of $2,500 this is a vacant building to be used for renovation and other site work. I will be asking for suspension. COUNCILMAN MANG moved for suspension of the rules and passage, seconded by Councilman Townsend. The rules were suspended by a roll call vote of 9 yes. ORDINANCE NO. 141 – 2007 WAS PASSED BY A ROLL CALL VOTE OF 9 YES. ORDINANCE NO. 142 2007 BY: COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT COMMITTEE Authorizing the Mayor of the City of Massillon, Ohio, to enter into an agreement with PatentHealth LLC to provide an economic development “inducement grant” to assist the company in relocating its operations in Massillon, and declaring an emergency. COUNCIL PRESIDENT GAMBER Mr. Mang, these are all important would you like to try this one with your eyes closed? COUNCILMAN MANG Mr. Mang was thinking about leaving. Okay, Ordinance No. 142 – 2007 again we had actually we had two gentlemen here one representing Stark County and the other individual from the company on PatentHealth. As we found out during the course of the evening that they operate a direct sales and marketing business. They’re location is in the former Republic Steel main office on Oberlin Road. This is kind of a new inducement grant that was worked out by the Mayor and the long and run of this is there’s a $5.6 million dollars worth of investments that’s going to be made and over a 7 year period or maybe its an 8 year period I’m not sure we’re talking about 500 jobs. We talked about the pay for these jobs, we also talked about they have a facility in Belden Village I’m not sure how many people are there. But those people will stay there it will not be a transfer of people here. There’s an initial money maybe I don’t know if it was $60,000 will be given to them when they come in and have 75 people employed after that the money will be dolled out based on the workforce. I think everybody had an opportunity to talk about this because the grants are based on the annual city income tax that’s payable to the city every year which would be 6%. So this is one of these that I don’t see where the city…its kind of nice to tie jobs and money and money to jobs to get it I think. I think the Mayor and the group should be congratulated on what they have done because at the foremost and at the front of this it sounds like this is going to be very, very good for our city. It’s going to help I think an awful lot of people hopefully in the city and western Stark County for an opportunity to secure a better job. I will be asking for suspension of the rules. COUNCILMAN MCCUNE I would just like to say as someone who has sent 27 years of his life down across the street from that building that it does my heart very good to see that the Mayor has been able to capture the possibility of 500 jobs back in that area. Lord knows we need it and I’m hoping that some of my former co-workers might be able to acquire some of those jobs. COUNCILMAN MANG moved for suspension of the rules and passage, seconded by Councilman McCune. The rules were suspended by a roll call vote of 9 yes. ORDINANCE NO. 142 – 2007 WAS PASSED BY A ROLL CALL VOTE OF 9 YES. ORDINANCE NO. 142 2007 BY: COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT COMMITTEE Amending CHAPTER 1121 “CONSTRUCTION OF LANGUAGE; DEFINITIONS”, CHAPTER 1187 “SUPPLEMENTAL ZONING REGULATIONS” and CHAPTER 1189 “GENERAL EXCEPTIONS” of the Codified Ordinances of the City of Massillon, by repealing existing Sections 1121.02 (23) and (67) “DEFINITIONS”, 1187.01 “COMMERCIAL TELEVISION AND RADIO TOWERS AND PUBLIC UTILITY MICROWAVES AND PUBLIC UTILITY T.V. TRANSMITTING TOWERS and 1189.04 “HEIGHT LIMIT” and enacting new Sections 1121.02 (23) and (67) “DEFINITIONS”, 1187.01 “COMMERCIAL TELEVISION AND RADIO TOWERS AND PUBLIC UTILITY MICROWAVES AND PUBLIC UTILITY T.V. TRANSMITTING TOWERS AND 1189.04 “HEIGHT LIMIT” of CHAPTER 1121, CHAPTER 1187 and CHAPTER 1189, and declaring an emergency. COUNCILMAN MANG Madame Clerk, I hate to say this to you but you’re going to have to do this a few more times. I think council at our work session Mr. Aaby went over the changes and the changes were brought forth at the advise of the law director. This piece of legislation will require a public hearing it is scheduled for January 7th 2007 at 7:15pm. ORDINANCE NO. 143 – 2007 WAS GIVEN FIRST READING. ORDINANCE NO. 144 2007 BY: FINANCE COMMITTEE Making certain appropriations from the unappropriated balance of the Economic Development Fund, 1201 Street Fund and the Community Health Fund, for the year ending December 31, 2007, and declaring an emergency. COUNCILWOMAN CATAZARO-PERRY Section 1 of Ordinance No. 144 we are going to appropriate from the unappropriated balance of the Economic Development Fund $87,972.00 and these are for the economic development grants that we all just passed. It will be put into an account entitled services and contracts. The second part of section 1 is $69,750 will go into an account entitled lease purchase payment and this is the December payment on the State Hospital. Section 2, we’re going to appropriate from the unappropriated balance of the 1201 Street Fund $16,000 will go into an account entitled street salary, $15,000 to an account entitled street overtime, $2,000 to street comp and $10,000 to storm sewer repairs and this is the storm sewer repair on Augusta Lakes. Section 3, we’re going to appropriate from the Community Health Fund $4,200 and that will for the salary for the health department. COUNCILWOMAN CATAZARO-PERRY moved for suspension of the rules and passage, seconded by Councilman Bryan. The rules were suspended by a roll call vote of 9 yes. ORDINANCE NO. 144 – 2007 WAS PASSED BY A ROLL CALL VOTE OF 9 YES. ORDINANCE NO. 145 2007 BY: FINANCE COMMITTEE Making certain appropriations from the unappropriated balance of the Solid Waste Fund, for the year ending December 31, 2007, and declaring an emergency. COUNCILWOMAN CATAZARO-PERRY Ordinance No. 145 in section 1 we’re going to be appropriating $29,000 from the balance of the Solid Waste Fund into an account entitled advanced to. This money is needed for the solid waste program this money will be repaid in the first quarter of 2008. This will be for our fourth quarter expenses of our solid waste fund. COUNCILWOMAN CATAZARO-PERRY moved for suspension of the rules and passage, seconded by Councilman Mang. The rules were suspended by a roll call vote of 9 yes. ORDINANCE NO. 145 – 2007 WAS PASSED BY A ROLL CALL VOTE OF 9 YES. ORDINANCE NO. 146 2007 BY: FINANCE COMMITTEE Making certain transfers in the 2007 appropriations from within the 2102 Solid Waste Fund to the 1222 Waste Management Grant Fund, for the year ending December 31, 2007, and declaring an emergency. COUNCILWOMAN CATAZARO-PERRY This is a second part of the ordinance we just passed. We’re going to be transferring the money now from advanced to to advanced in the $29,000. COUNCILWOMAN CATAZARO-PERRY moved for suspension of the rules and passage, seconded by Councilman Bryan. The rules were suspended by a roll call vote of 9 yes. ORDINANCE NO. 146 – 2007 WAS PASSED BY A ROLL CALL VOTE OF 9 YES. ORDINANCE NO. 147 2007 BY: FINANCE COMMITTEE Making certain appropriations from the unappropriated balance of the General Fund, for the year ending December 31, 2007, and declaring an emergency. COUNCILWOMAN CATAZARO-PERRY Ordinance No. 147 we’re going to appropriate from the General Fund $140,000 to an account entitled advance to and then what the next ordinance will be sending it to advanced in. So I can explain that when we get to the next ordinance. But this is for salaries. COUNCILWOMAN CATAZARO-PERRY moved for suspension of the rules and passage, seconded by Councilwoman Ferrero. The rules were suspended by a roll call vote of 9 yes. ORDINANCE NO. 147 – 2007 WAS PASSED BY A ROLL CALL VOTE OF 9 YES. ORDINANCE NO. 148 2007 BY: FINANCE COMMITTEE Making certain transfers in the 2007 appropriations from within the General fund to the 1234 Parks & Recreation Fund, for the year ending December 31, 2007, and declaring an emergency. COUNCILWOMAN CATAZARO-PERRY This is part b of all three of these ordinances that are kind of running together. We are going to transfer from the General Fund to the 1234 Parks & Rec. Fund this is $140,000 that we just transferred to or appropriated to advanced to now we’re transferring it to advanced in. Again, its for salaries. COUNCILMAN BRYAN Maybe Mr. Kaminski or the Mayor or whoever can answer the question. I just want to get clear in my mind why the General Fund is advancing $140,000 to the Park & Rec. Fund right? COUNCIL PRESIDENT GAMBER Both of you have been asked either one of you may come forward. Mr. Kaminski? PARK & RECREATION SUPERINTENDANT KAMINSKI – The advances need we had three employees this year leave employment with the city and part of their benefit package towards the end we had to pay them out their sick and vacation time and comp time that was earned. Then we were also hit with the minimum wage increase throughout the department in this calendar year. COUNCILMAN BRYAN Does this have anything then to do with the payments on the property out west? PARK & RECREATION SUPERINTENDANT KAMINSKI – No actually this is more with the Legends we actually took our parks and recreation revenue salaries money from parks and recreation to pay some salaries out at the Legends. COUNCILMAN BRYAN So this is totally a salary and personnel issue not a land that you didn’t get grant money for issue. PARK & RECREATION SUPERINTENDANT KAMINSKI – No, sir. COUNCILMAN BRYAN Okay, thank you. COUNCILWOMAN CATAZARO-PERRY moved for suspension of the rules and passage, seconded by Councilman Bryan. The rules were suspended by a roll call vote of 9 yes. ORDINANCE NO. 148 – 2007 WAS PASSED BY A ROLL CALL VOTE OF 9 YES. ORDINANCE NO. 149 2007 BY: FINANCE COMMITTEE Making certain appropriations from the unappropriated balance of the Parks & Recreation Fund, for the year ending December 31, 2007, and declaring an emergency. COUNCILWOMAN CATAZARO-PERRY moved for suspension of the rules and passage, seconded by Councilman Peters. The rules were suspended by a roll call vote of 9 yes. ORDINANCE NO. 149 – 2007 WAS PASSED BY A ROLL CALL VOTE OF 9 YES. ORDINANCE NO. 150 2007 BY: FINANCE COMMITTEE Making certain transfers in the 2007 appropriations from within the General Fund and the Parks & Rec. Fund, for the year ending December 31, 2007, and declaring an emergency. COUNCILWOMAN CATAZARO-PERRY Section 1 we’re going to be transferring from within the General Fund from Workers Comp this is extensive so please bear with me. Workers comp $10,611.64, law director staff $10,000, accumulated sick leave $2,892 and hospital, eye and dental $1,600. We’re sending those funds to service director $5,732, salary – building $5,020, salary – street $4,518, salary – health department $2,892, services and contracts $1,600, salary – engineer $1,368, street PERS - $1,271.21, street overtime $1,073.64, salary – council staff $1,000, salary – mayor staff $1,000, salary eeo director $900 and street Medicare $297.45. In section 2, we’re going to transfer from the 2007 appropriation from the General Fund from workers comp $43,096, transfer debt retirement $7,568, real property tax $5,914, annexation fees $5,000, bank fees $3,500, state examination $906, indigent burial $750, insurance $637. We’re sending this to school district revenue sharing for a total of $67,371. Section 3, we’re going to transfer from within the Park & Rec. Fund from supplies and materials $6,500 to salary – recreation $6,500. COUNCILWOMAN CATAZARO-PERRY moved for suspension of the rules and passage, seconded by Councilman Peters. The rules were suspended by a roll call vote of 9 yes. ORDINANCE NO. 150 – 2007 WAS PASSED BY A ROLL CALL VOTE OF 9 YES. ORDINANCE NO. 151 2007 BY: FINANCE COMMITTEE Amending Ordinance No. 8 – 2007 by revising Section 4 of the 2007 budget, and declaring an emergency. COUNCILWOMAN CATAZARO-PERRY I may Bill you would please Mr. Hamit come up to the microphone this is the very first time that we’ve had to have an ordinance such as this and Bill would you please explain why we have to change the amounts on this ordinance, please. AUDITOR HAMIT – At the beginning of the year the budget is set with an estimated amount to police, fire and all the different debt funds would cost the city. It’s been that way for the 4 years I’ve been here. Now as of last year the state auditor wants an exact number at the close of the year into that. So we have to adjust those line items to show exactly what is being spent out of those line items. At the beginning of the year I don’t have a budget with me but they would be within $6,000 to $8,000 of that figure. Then they were always just brought back into the general fund as a carry over. Now they want them to be exact. That in a nut shell tells you what it is. COUNCILWOMAN CATAZARO-PERRY moved for suspension of the rules and passage, seconded by Councilman Bryan. The rules were suspended by a roll call vote of 9 yes. ORDINANCE NO. 151 – 2007 WAS PASSED BY A ROLL CALL VOTE OF 9 YES. ORDINANCE NO. 152 2007 BY: FINANCE COMMITTEE To approve current replacement pages to the Massillon Codified Ordinances, and declaring an emergency. COUNCILWOMAN CATAZARO-PERRY We do need to approve the replacement pages for the Massillon Codified Ordinances. I will read those down quickly…Traffic Code - 301.20 Definition of Motor Vehicle – amended, 333.01 Driving or Physical Control While Under The Influence – amended, 333.08 Operation Without Reasonable Control – amended, 335.03 Driving With Temporary Instruction Permit – amended, 335.031 Driving With Probationary License – amended, 337.10 Lights on Slow Moving Vehicles – amended, 337.18 Motor Vehicle and Motorcycle Brakes – amended, 337.26 Child Restraint System Usage – amended, 339.03 Maximum Width, Height and Length – amended, 339.05 Wheel Protectors – amended, General Offenses Codes - 501.01 Definitions – amended, 513.12 Drug Paraphernalia – amended, 525.02 Falsification – amended, 525.03 Impersonation of Peace Officer – amended, 252.10 Having an Unlawful Interest in a Public Contract – amended, 533.01 Obscenity and Sexual Offenses’ Definitions – amended, 533.07 Public Indecency – amended, 537.02 Vehicular Homicide and Manslaughter – amended, 537.03 Assault – amended, 537.051 Menacing by Stalking – amended, 537.08 Unlawful Restraint – amended, 537.16 Illegal Distribution of Cigarettes – amended, 537.17 Criminal Child Enticement – amended, 549.02 Carrying Concealed Weapons – amended, 549.04 Improperly Handling Firearms in a Motor Vehicle – amended. COUNCILWOMAN CATAZARO-PERRY moved for suspension of the rules and passage, seconded by Councilman Peters. The rules were suspended by a roll call vote of 9 yes. ORDINANCE NO. 152 – 2007 WAS PASSED BY A ROLL CALL VOTE OF 9 YES. RESOLUTION NO. 17 2007 BY: COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE A Resolution of support for Ohio “Gold Star Family” license plates. COUNCILMAN BRYAN As a matter-of-fact President of Council Gamber brought up to our attention this effort by various veterans groups to establish in the State of Ohio gold star license plates for gold star families. The Ohio Senate apparently has passed this legislation which would allow families of Ohio veterans killed in action to display gold star family license plates on their vehicles. Resolution No. 17 will support their effort to get the Ohio House to pass the same legislation and to do it hopefully by December 7th. So everyone on council has signed the sponsoring the legislation so I will after any questions or comments I’ll for its suspension and passage. COUNCILMAN MCCUNE Hopefully the actions by this council are taken place all over the state and that by sending a clear and strong message to the house they will act on this very expediently it’s something that should be done. I thank you for bringing it to our attention. COUNCILMAN BRYAN moved for suspension of the rules and passage, seconded by Councilman Manson. The rules were suspended by a roll call vote of 9 yes. RESOLUTION NO. 17 – 2007 WAS PASSED BY A ROLL CALL VOTE OF 9 YES. COUNCIL PRESIDENT GAMBER We’ll forward this to Representative Oelslager immediately. 7. UNFINISHED BUSINESS 8. PETITIONS AND GENERAL COMMUNICATIONS 9. BILLS, ACCOUNTS AND CLAIMS 1. WALTER DRANE - $4,998.87 COUNCIL PRESIDENT GAMBER Councilwoman Catazaro-Perry? COUNCILWOMAN CATAZARO-PERRY I move that we pay the bills, seconded by Councilman Bryan. Roll call vote of 9 yes to pay the bills. 10. REPORTS FROM CITY OFFICIALS A). MAYOR SUBMITS MONTHLY PERMIT REPORT FOR NOVEMBER 2007. COPY FILE COUNCIL PRESIDENT GAMBER I know the Mayor wants to come forward we’ll do that just in a moment; we need a motion to accept the auditor’s report. COUNCILWOMAN CATAZARO-PERRY I move that we accept the auditor’s report for November 2007, seconded by Councilman Bryan. Roll call vote of 9 yes to accept the auditor’s report. COUNCIL PRESIDENT GAMBER Mr. Mayor would you like to come forward now? MAYOR CICCHINELLI – Earlier this evening before the meeting I passed out what we what I guess Perry and I are cautiously optimistic that this is the settlement in principle with Perry Township concerning the Prophecy Massillon annexation. We wanted to inform members of council and I don’t’ really want to go back unless there’s questions as to how we got to that position. But as all of you know last week Perry Township did file a motion of appeal for the Prophecy Massillon annexation. Since that time Perry, Anna Capaldi from Perry Township Trustees and myself have worked what we think is a mutually acceptable solution to the issue of this annexation. We are going to have to come back to you folks with a formal acceptance of any agreement but we wanted to just make sure that you had an outline of what we were talking about. The Perry Township Trustees are meeting tomorrow evening and we’ll be discussing the same proposed settlement. What it basically is going to do just so you understand the since this was a regular annexation a standard annexation proceeding the township was only to be given a sliding scale of real estate taxes. This includes I’ll just give you an idea what we were talking about before. The first three years according to law they get 80%, the 4th and 5th year they get 67.5%, the 6th and 7th year they get 62.5%, the 8th and 9th year they get 57.5% and the 10th, 11th and 12th year they get 42.5%. Don’t ask us why the folks in Columbus put half percents but that’s what they did. As all of you know during the discussions the last three months what we had offered them as a way to get them to support the entire Prophecy Massillon annexation which includes the 259 acres which includes part of the county farm. We had offered them 100% of the real estate taxes forever on both Prophecy Massillon part and the county farm whenever that’s developed. Then the hearing was held we couldn’t come to any agreement of course then they went and decided to go and make an agreement with Navarre and the rest is history. The big picture here is economic development and so I think if you look at what we arrived at its sort of a compromise. If this is acceptable to everyone Perry Township will receive 80% of all real estate taxes now the reduced Prophecy Massillon annexation of about 78 acres for 6 years and then 60% of real estate taxes for the remaining 6 years. Now keep in mind without trying to confuse you but when I say 80% or 60% I’m not talking about the entire amount of real estates taxes generated from that parcel. Because as all of you know approximately 80% of all real estate taxes go to support the school district. In this case it’s the Fairless Local School District about 12% goes to support the county and then the township, village or city whatever the case might be gets the remaining 8%, 9%. Each you know we have the 5 different taxing districts within the city and each one is a little different but for the sake of discussion its around 8 or 9%. So we’re talking 80% and 60% of that amount. Then in #2 in the exchange for this agreement or for this real estate tax sharing then they will basically drop the appeal and agree to actually have no more further appeals. The other part of it which I think is a big picture type of issue is in the second paragraph where the township will commence negotiations with both the City of Massillon and the Village of Navarre concerning future development of the county farm property which was annexed to Navarre, the JEDD which is in the agreement between the village and the township and the Sterilite property with the goal of ultimately reaching some type of agreement and a big picture type development plan for this entire region. So I think that’s important to note because Sterilite property is part of the JEDD we service that area 100% but we don’t’ get that many dollars in income tax because of an agreed to ordinance about 12 years ago. However, that all being said we think we need to make a statement that all three communities with the county must work together if we’re to come up with a plan to develop the county farm. That’s why we put in here that we’re going to commence discussion the first quarter of 2008. If we’re ultimately successful in coming up with some type of an agreement with the fore mentioned parties then the city would extend the 12 months pay period as far as real estate taxes. But we do have some time because once the annexation is approved its as you can see 80% for the first six years. So we hope that we can agree because there’s a lot of issues that need to be addressed as far as the development of the farm. So hopefully we have an agreement I’m cautiously optimistic I know that everyone’s looking at the Shearers proposal of course we don’t make any decisions on that. I know that Mr. Shearer has consistently said for the last two to three months when all this was going on and we thought we were negotiating in good faith that other options are being looked at. So hopefully we’re going to go back to square one but we’re only dealing with this issue between the various communities of three communities of western Stark County and the elected officials involved in this. I still remain optimistic that we will see some development in this region. I’ll take any questions. COUNCILMAN MANG – I know very little about all this other than what the media has passed on, but it appears you’re extending the olive branch and you very like to have it broken and brought back to you. I do give you an awful lot of credit for trying to work with these communities I think they have to understand that City of Massillon has been very active in development and things are going to happen on the farm whether it’s today, tomorrow or down the road I think it’s all going to happen in this city. I think the city has proved that and I think it will prove it in years to come. I take my hat off to you for what I consider going the extra mile in trying to get people together. I would sure hope that they would understand that what you’re talking about is for the betterment and they would put aside their political thoughts and spend the time more on what will be benefit to our local community. Again, I thank you. MAYOR CICCHINELLI – Very well put thank you for your complements. 11. REPORTS OF COMMITTEES COUNCIL PRESIDENT GAMBER We will have a committee of the whole meeting immediately after council in the conference room please don’t delay too long getting in there. We have regular committee meetings next Monday, December 10th. COUNCILMAN PETERS I’m going to bring this up we have a scheduled council meeting on January 7th and because of what happened this weekend in college football it kind of makes that day kind of a special day here in Ohio. I would like to know if we can move it to Tuesday, January 8th. COUNCIL PRESIDENT GAMBER That will be up for discussion. I would say at our session right after council when we meet we can talk about that or at the committee work session next week. COUNCILWOMAN CATAZARO-PERRY I do want to remind council that we do have a budget meeting December 19th which is Wednesday at 5:45pm so that the media and everyone is aware of that date and time. 12. RESOLUTIONS AND REQUESTS OF COUNCIL MEMBERS COUNCILMAN MANSON I’d just like to put everybody to make them aware there will be some stuff coming forward on the Wastewater Treatment Plant before long. I don’t know if we will be better off having one big session or if maybe we can break it down into a few different smaller ones and do it a little shorter maybe spend 20 minutes a night for a few nights discussing it. But I’ll talk to Mr. Bryan about that and we’ll see I think we’re going to have to have somebody in from the EPA to explain pretreatment programs that we’re involved in. Also the rate study is completed and the meetings haven’t been held yet with the companies that were involved but they will be held before anything comes to us. So I just wanted to make you aware we’ll be getting busier. 13. CALL OF THE CALENDAR 14. THIRD READING ORDINANCES AND RESOLUTIONS .SECOND READING ORDINANCES AND RESOLUTIONS ORDINANCE NO. 127 2007 BY: COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT COMMITTEE Authorizing the Director of Public Service and Safety of the City of Massillon, Ohio, to advertise for and receive sealed bids, and enter into contract with the highest bidder for the sale of approximately 51 acres located at the Legends Golf Course, in the City of Massillon, Stark County, Ohio and owned by said City, which is not needed for any municipal purpose, and declaring an emergency. COUNCIL PRESIDENT GAMBER I’ll turn it over to Mr. Mang I have a note here Mrs. Catazaro-Perry you had deferred comments from earlier. COUNCILWOMAN CATAZARO-PERRY Yes, I did whenever its time. COUNCILMAN MANG Yes, I will entertain Mrs. Perry at this point. COUNCILWOMAN CATAZARO-PERRY Thank you, Mr. Mang. Mr. Grove I had a question for you and your I did have the other gentleman’s name written down here Graham, Mr. Graham. You both stated that you’re life members? COUNCIL PRESIDENT GAMBER Can we hold up for just one moment have one at a time come to the microphone identify yourself. MITCHELL GROVE - 2235 Eastwood Avenue. COUNCILWOMAN CATAZARO-PERRY Mr. Grove, you and Mr. Graham both stated that you’re life members and that you wanted to have some input with the Legends or maybe receive a 1/3 back if these 9 holes are sold. What was stated when you received your life membership can you recall? MITCHELL GROVE - We have the contracts I’ll be honest they’re pretty vague there’s not a whole lot in there. Supposedly they did this to raise money to supplement the other 9 holes. I only feel its fair you know if you take 9 holes away that you reimburse us somewhat for that 1/3 of it and I think that’s fair for everybody involved. I really would just like to see the course possibly managed by an outside force and to also you know as you know we only get 10% I believe if I’m not mistaken of the food and concessions. I would like to see that brought that into the equation see how that’s figured as far as what are profits would be possibly if that was brought in. I think it’s a big decision and we’re talking a lot of money and I think it needs to be addressed properly I believe there’s been a lot of mismanagement the course is in great shape now but its got a bad rap as far as a lot of people don’t want to come there because I brought a guy there… COUNCIL PRESIDENT GAMBER Mr. Grove, the question was about what you were promised in terms of your payment. MITCHELL GROVE - Okay, well, on the contract basically it just says for 27 holes and we get preferred tee times and so forth and I’m sure you have a copy of the contract Mr. Gamber if you can read it. COUNCILWOMAN CATAZARO-PERRY Mr. Grove, I also had a call today from another gentleman that’s a life member and this was my very first call from anyone about the Legends. He said and maybe you’re part of this group did you want a meeting with Mr. Kaminski, did you request a meeting with Mr. Kaminski? MITCHELL GROVE - I personally did not. COUNCILWOMAN CATAZARO-PERRY Okay, have you had a chance to talk with Mr. Kaminski at all about the sale or? MITCHELL GROVE - No, I have not. COUNCILWOMAN CATAZARO-PERRY Okay, well the gentleman I talked to today said that he was a life member also and that he had requested meetings with Mr. Kaminski but was denied those meetings. I have not had a chance to ask Mr. Kaminski that which I’m going to ask him in a minute if its okay Mr. Mang. But that was one of my big questions because it was my very first phone call ever since the topic came up. MITCHELL GROVE - I know the life member that you’re talking about and he actually said he was going to call you. I said “that’s fine” and I’d be willing to meet with you too, but I never requested a meeting with Mr. Kaminski myself personally. COUNCILWOMAN CATAZARO-PERRY Now, the other question he brought was somebody on the Parks and Rec. Board is going to benefit financially from this sale. Have you heard that? MITCHELL GROVE - I’ve heard that but I don’t know you know if its true or not. COUNCILWOMAN CATAZARO-PERRY Okay, I don’t know that either which I would like to get that answered this evening. COUNCIL PRESIDENT GAMBER Mr. Mang, before we go much further can I ask do you plan to ask for second reading or do you anticipate… COUNCILMAN MANG I plan to ask for second reading, sir. COUNCIL PRESIDENT GAMBER Alright, if I might suggest this sounds very much like a topic for a committee session rather than council. I’ll leave that up to you. COUNCILMAN MANG I would like to ask Mr. Kaminski if he’d like to since the question was brought forward about a meeting with the lifetime members I’d like to get an answer to that. COUNCIL PRESIDENT GAMBER Okay, if we can hold off do you have anything else Mrs. Catazaro-Perry? COUNCILWOMAN CATAZARO-PERRY Well, I did just have one other request I did tell the gentleman today that it was brought up at a work session and I think it was Mr. Peters that brought it up that he would like to have council take a tour of the sale of the certain holes instead of looking at it on a sheet of paper. I think that would be a great idea for us to go out on the golf course. I’m not a golfer and I’m going to have a hard time making this decision because I’m not a golfer. So I think I’d really like to go out there and see exactly what you’re talking about I’ve never played on that golf course. I did try to play at Hilton Head and I’m not very good at it but I would like to go out on the course and see what you’re talking and what we’re selling. Also if you have any other comments from other life members. COUNCIL PRESIDENT GAMBER Okay, Mr. Grove, thank you very much. If I could issue a cautionary comment here I’d be very carefully about questions regarding possible improprieties or you know who might make money or might not make money. Mr. Mang, you have a question? COUNCILMAN MANG I would Mr. Kaminski since you’re up at the microphone there was a question asked about a meeting that was asked for by the lifetime members. Is that something you’re aware of and if that is the case has it been held, will it be held or is it not appropriate? PARKS & RECREATION SUPERINTENDENT KAMINSKI – Mr. Mang, there has not been one situation where a group or an individual’s asked me for a meeting that I’ve declined. I’ve met with the homeowners associations out there and it was a big as I believe 60 people as small as one person that I’ve met with. I would never decline someone an opportunity to look into this and to meet with them. I’ve had discussions with two lifetime members regarding the potential sale of this land. COUNCILMAN MANG I’m gong to prefer not to have any more comments or questions about this tonight. We’ll bring this forward at our work session where I think would be the time to discuss this because I think there’s a few more questions that members of council may have. Mr. Mayor, it might not hurt Mr. Mayor if you have the opportunity to be here at the work session if you can do that I think that would help because this is a big issue for us. ORDINANCE NO. 127 – 2007 WAS GIVEN SECOND READING. ORDINANCE NO. 129 2007 BY: STREETS, HIGHWAYS, TRAFFIC & SAFETY Vacating a portion of 1st Street NE, and declaring an emergency. COUNCILMAN PETERS Second reading. ORDINANCE NO. 129 – 2007 WAS GIVEN SECOND READING. 16. NEW AND MISCELLANEOUS BUSINESS .REMARKS OF DELEGATIONS AND CITIZENS TO MATTERS NOT ON THE AGENDA COUNCIL PRESIDENT GAMBER I will remind everyone of our meeting in the conference room. 18. ADJOURNMENT COUNCILMAN PETERS – I move that we adjourn, seconded by all.
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