|
MINUTES OF THE REGULAR MEETING COUNCIL PRESIDENT GAMBER I d like to welcome all of you to Massillon City Council for Tuesday, January 22, 2008. We have in attendance with us this evening: Mayor Francis Cicchinelli, Auditor Jayne Ferrero, Law Director Perry Stergios, Engineer Keith Dylewski and our Parks and Recreation Superintendent Kenn Kaminski. On the wall to your left are agendas for anyone who wishes to follow the meeting. Also under item #5 on the agenda is where the public can speak on any item that appears on the agenda and then under item #17 is where the public can speak on any item that does not appear on the agenda. I d also like to remind anyone with a cell phone please turn it off or turn it very far down. 1. ROLL CALL Roll call for the evening found the following Council Members present: Kathy Catazaro-Perry, Dave Hersher, Chuck Maier, Ron Mang, Paul Manson, Dave McCune, Donnie Peters, Larry Slagle and Tony Townsend. Thus giving a roll call vote of 9 present. 2. INVOCATION COUNCILMAN HERSER – Gave the invocation for tonight. 3. PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE COUNCILMAN HERSHER – Chairman of the Environmental Committee led those in attendance in the Pledge of Allegiance. 4. READING OF THE JOURNAL COUNCIL PRESIDENT GAMBER Madame Clerk are the minutes of the previous meeting transcribed and open for public viewing (THEY ARE) Are there any additions or corrections to the minutes. If not the minutes stand approved as written. 5. REMARKS OF DELEGATIONS AND CITIZENS TO MATTERS ON THE AGENDA COUNCIL PRESIDENT GAMBER This is the part of our agenda where we invite the public forward to speak on a topic that appears on the agenda this evening. If anyone would like to do so please come forward to the microphone at this time. BRUCE VARSON – I reside at 1211 Spring Hill Avenue NE. I had seen something in the paper about and I didn’t know if it was going to be addressed tonight and that was the improvement of certain intersections on Wales Road. I haven’t had an opportunity to see if this was actually going to be addressed tonight or not. Supposedly by the improvements on Hankins and Wales and Lake and Wales is that a topic that is in fact going to be addressed. Well, I had some questions with respect to that apparently their going to appropriate money to do a study on these improvements am I correct in that? COUNCIL PRESIDENT GAMBER Yes. BRUCE VARSON – Okay, do they know off hand do they have the intention of appropriating additional lands for the improvement of these intersections like private property that’s why I was just curious about… COUNCIL PRESIDENT GAMBER Okay, this is an opportunity for you to give your comments it’s not really a question and answer session as such. Later in the meeting if you make your comments and what some of your concerns are the councilman will hear them and the chairman of the committee can address them when we reach that part of the agenda. BRUCE VARSON – Okay, well actually at this point I don’t have any comments I’m just on a fact finding mission just out of curiosity. COUNCIL PRESIDENT GAMBER Alright, we welcome you to stay and listen to that section and if it does not pass tonight we’ll discuss it again next Monday at the committee meeting and you’re welcome to talk to Mr. Peters between now and then and find out more about it. BRUCE VARSON – Okay, thank you for indulging me. 6. INTRODUCTION OF ORDINANCES AND RESOLUTIONS COUNCIL PRESIDENT GAMBER Thank you. Is there anyone who would like to speak? Alright, we will move into the introduction of ordinances and resolutions. Mr. Mang, you have a request? COUNCILMAN MANG Yes, I’d like to request that we move Ordinance No. 127 – 2007 to be the first item of business this evening. COUNCIL PRESIDENT GAMBER Does anyone have an objection to moving item 127 forward? That’s the third reading for the ordinance regarding taking bids for the golf course property. Mr. Mang, you have the floor. I’m sorry let me have the Clerk read the title first. COUNCILMAN MANG Mr. President, prior to doing that I would like to request that council move into executive session to discuss sale of land. COUNCIL PRESIDENT GAMBER Alright, let me have the Clerk read the title first and then we will take up your motion. ORDINANCE NO. 127 2007 BY: COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT COMMITTEE Authorizing the Director of Public Service and Safety of the City of Massillon, Ohio, to advertise for and receive sealed bids, for the sale of approximately 51 acres located at the Legends Golf Course, in the City of Massillon, Stark County, Ohio and owned by said City, which is not needed for any municipal purpose, and declaring an emergency. COUNCIL PRESIDENT GAMBER Thank you, we have a motion by Mr. Mang to go to executive session do I have a second, seconded by Mr. McCune. Roll vote of 8 yes, 1 no to go into executive session. Peters voted no. COUNCIL PRESIDENT GAMBER For the record I would like to indicate that I did ask the law director while we were in the executive session if we adjourned properly if there was a proper legal reason to be executive session and he assured council that every legality was met and that we had no problem meeting to discuss the possible sale of this property. Mr. Mang, you have the floor. COUNCILMAN MANG Thank you, Mr. President. This piece of legislation obviously is up tonight for its third reading. We’ve had commentary on it at work sessions and I feel its time to get this piece of legislation moving only from the stand point that I think we have to find the direction that this piece of legislation may take us to. It’s very conceivable that the advertising for this piece of property we’re putting a minimum bid to start with. It’s possible that because of the conditions in the market place that we may have no better. I think that is very important to this body to know that early so that we can start to make whatever necessary steps that’s going to have to be made. I think that it’s important to realize that the debt is a general obligation debt on this city which we’re talking about our general fund money. The debt is no one else’s but ours. So if we don’t pay for it and I’m very concerned about that and I think that we need to and I’m not even totally sure the sale of this land along with the what will eventually happen at Genshaft these dollars here will at least take care in fact debt dollar from Genshaft more than likely a lot of that may go into immediate preservation in trying to keep everything afloat. As you know we’ve already advanced money and something you may not remember and I didn’t remember is that some years ago the city gave money to the park and rec. several times and I thought over the years we had that paid for. But in essence there’s $400,000.00 of money out there that came out of our general fund its not to be paid back until the year 2010 or 2012. So you can see we’ve already started to affect general fund money. Every year we set here and we’re looking for ways to try and keep everything afloat this year we’ve got a 95/5 and that’s without any growth. That really concerns me I’m not talking finances to talk finances because I’m not chairman of the finance committee. I’m talking finances because the sale of this property comes under my committee. I don’t want to sell this piece of property I don’t want to sell any city property but I don’t see anything else at this point. But I am willing to listen and take suggestions and hope that maybe something will happen. I’m asking council to support passage of Ordinance No. 127. COUNCIL PRESIDENT GAMBER Is there any other comment or discussion on this ordinance? Mrs. Catazaro-Perry? COUNCILWOMAN CATAZARO-PERRY First I’d like to say that I felt that the things that were discussed in the meeting this evening in the executive session should have been discussed out in open session. I’d like to ask Kenn Kaminski a few questions. Mr. Kaminski, can you tell me has there been an appraisal done on the property PARKS & REC. SUPERINDENTANT KAMINSKI – Out at the Legends? (Correct) No, there is not. COUNCILWOMAN CATAZARO-PERRY Are you planning on doing an appraisal on that? PARKS & REC. SUPERINDENTANT KAMINSKI – Not at this point. COUNCILWOMAN CATAZARO-PERRY Don’t we often sometimes get appraisals before we sell property? PARKS & REC. SUPERINDENTANT KAMINSKI – Yes, we appraised Genshaft property even though that different when come to the zoning. When we got that back we felt that we had a property price of $48,000.00 per acre. COUNCILWOMAN CATAZARO-PERRY Do you believe you’ve looked at all options that there are out there? PARKS & REC. SUPERINDENTANT KAMINSKI – I believe we did, recreation board has spoke about this internally close to a year and we felt that we addressed every concern that we would have as a recreation board try to take in the best interest of the community and the department as a whole. Basically, if we had different options we would have explored those first. COUNCILWOMAN CATAZARO-PERRY You know I believe you’re qualified as our park and rec. director but do you believe you’re qualified to decide which holes we should sell? PARKS & REC. SUPERINDENTANT KAMINSKI – No, I mean that’s an interesting question. No, to answer your question and the reason I say no is because when we looked at that we actually came up with a whole bunch of different proposals. I really wish I had a map right here because my actual proposal was to take the holes away that Augusta Lakes was talking about in behind which is east 5 and 6. To take those holes away but it would take the golf course view away from many residents but I think we did our due diligence in making that decision. I think that we did enough research with companies and people who know the field to be able to say “yes, we can take these holes away”. We had to make the holes that we took away attractive to potential developers and one of the big things that they stated was that they needed to have golf course views. That’s how we were able to do that and then the last part of that is we also had to take care of when we made these decisions on the holes that we were going to take care of how much was going to have to get into the golf course to still make it functionable. COUNCILWOMAN CATAZARO-PERRY Have we looked at I know you and I discussed the food service contract have you talked with them about buying them out? PARKS & REC. SUPERINDENTANT KAMINSKI – Yes, we’ve had that conversation. COUNCILWOMAN CATAZARO-PERRY And, I’m sure council doesn’t know what the results were of that. PARKS & REC. SUPERINDENTANT KAMINSKI – We’re still in negotiations with that. The rec. board has presented a proposal for the last five years of the contract to the owners. We are waiting for a response from them because we have the ability to negotiate the last five years. COUNCILWOMAN CATAZARO-PERRY And I have talked with some golfers of course I have stated many, many times I’m not a golfer and they tell me that course is at its best right now at the end of last year. Do you expect increase play from golfers in the area or decrease? PARKS & REC. SUPERINDENTANT KAMINSKI – I expect increase play because the conditions are good but I’m highly concerned that without the proper budget that we do not have this year that if we do not take proactive steps we’re going to be caught behind the eight ball again. We’ve already went through for the last couple of years. COUNCILWOMAN CATAZARO-PERRY What about the marketing; are we planning on increasing our marketing abilities for the course? PARKS & REC. SUPERINDENTANT KAMINSKI – One, we’re trying to do that internally, but as council knows we have no budget for marketing because it’s all predicated off the income from the golf course. We are doing that internally, we are trying our best to get the hotel business back which is a large part of our revenue that comes. I’ve met with them; Julie Jenkins has met with them. We’re doing our best with that and we’re trying to make it much easier for people to be able to come there and hold events at the Legends. COUNCILWOMAN CATAZARO-PERRY You know I was told over the weekend that you and Mr. Privich were lobbying some of the council members and I just wondered you know if that’s true and are you are trying to get you know the vote for tonight and if so you know why not out in the open why not come to council at the work session and talk with us. PARKS & REC. SUPERINDENTANT KAMINSKI – Again, another interesting question. We’re not lobbying anyone we were just trying to educate them because one of the first things I heard from a new auditor is that she did not understand fully the crisis that we’re in until she took over the auditor. I don’t mean to throw her under the bus or speak for her I apologize for that. But there was no lobbying at all. Basically, what it was an education and really what it comes down to is the recreation board has done everything they could and we came up with this proposal. Now if this isn’t voted on we basically we, you nine here, us, we have six weeks to figure this out. Because tonight you’re advancing $105,000.00 into a fund for us to pay for last year’s bills. Now we’re taking all our start up revenue and the revenue we need to get the golf course ready out of the recreation fund. We’re doing that right now, we have no choice. The problem is we’re going to get into a situation where we’re not going to have cash available to pay our bills and to operate. So we’ve got the potential if something isn’t done and Mr. Mang stated that we’ve got to come up with a plan b and a plan c. We do need to do that if this does not happen. COUNCILWOMAN CATAZARO-PERRY What about the Genshaft funds once that sale goes completely thru you know why are we putting that into a special account. Why are we not utilizing that for the golf course? PARKS & REC. SUPERINDENTANT KAMINSKI – That was the desire of the recreation board was to put it into a special account and then to be able to draw interest off that money and then take x amount of money per year to get into capital improvements. The capital improvements is for the parks department, recreation center, senior center, everything else that we have to offer including portions of the golf course. Now the of course the recreation board understands the situation that we’re in, they know that some of that money or the majority of that money has to bail us out. That’s just a temporary fix, that’s a band aid because we can blow thru that money in one or two days. That wasn’t the intention of us selling Genshaft it was us to get back on our feet parks and recreation wise and recreation center wise especially to be able to do capital improvements, replace equipment to replace trucks to do extra things out in the parks department. We haven’t done it and we have not done one capital project since I have been here and its been two years. If this is forecasted we’re not going to be. COUNCILWOMAN CATAZARO-PERRY Well, personally you know you’ve come into a tough position and I told you that before you know and I’m not attacking you, you’ve just come into a tough position and so you get the hard the questions. PARKS & REC. SUPERINDENTANT KAMINSKI – That’s fine. COUNCILWOMAN CATAZARO-PERRY What I would like to suggest to council do is create our own committee and really, really look at this and give everyone a fair shot at doing this correctly and making sure we’re making the right recommendations. You know the past people on the rec. board made a recommendation to sell and to create those extra nine holes. Now you’re coming back to… PARKS & REC. SUPERINDENTANT KAMINSKI – No, no, that’s not accurate. COUNCILWOMAN CATAZARO-PERRY It’s not accurate? PARKS & REC. SUPERINDENTANT KAMINSKI – No, we did not, the recreation board did not make the decision to build the extra nine. Recreation department had nothing to do with the expansion. COUNCILWOMAN CATAZARO-PERRY Of the nine holes? PARKS & REC. SUPERINDENTANT KAMINSKI – Of the nine holes. We had absolutely nothing to do with that after the nine holes were built the debt was accumulated; it went from the city over the parks and recreation department. But it had nothing to do with the parks and recreation department. COUNCILWOMAN CATAZARO-PERRY But people on your board were pushing for that, correct? PARKS & REC. SUPERINDENTANT KAMINSKI – I can’t speak for them I wasn’t around I don’t know that. COUNCILWOMAN CATAZARO-PERRY I’m just saying I think we need to be very, very cautious on what we’re doing because this is a huge decision for all of council members to make it’s a huge decision. I know you’re in a tough spot… PARKS & REC. SUPERINDENTANT KAMINSKI – I understand that and I appreciate the effort but we have a time table we’ve got pretty much six to eight weeks. Because in six to eight weeks if there isn’t a solution here we are going to come back because we are going to be cash strapped. COUNCILWOMAN CATAZARO-PERRY Well, and I feel bad for you but you know if this was such a dire need now we are in crisis management… PARKS & REC. SUPERINDENTANT KAMINSKI – Absolutely. COUNCILWOMAN CATAZARO-PERRY And it puts us all in a bad situation so you know I think we need to get that sale of that Genshaft completed and get some money in that account and be able to support it for a little while. But I would like to recommend a 90 day committee its called the blue ribbon committee it will be housed with attorneys, several golf course owners, some accountants, several lifetime members of the Legends, some homeowners, some just golfers just in the Stark County area just some golfers and of course the parks and rec. chairman and yourself. I really think we need to pull that committee together, I think Mr. Townsend could ask the people I’m sure council would be willing to help him but I think that truly would be our due diligence to the city. I think you’ve done a fair job but I don’t we’ve done enough, I really don’t and I’ve told you that this maybe the ultimate that you know we do this but I think we need to discuss it, I think we need to talk about it and I’d like to have council discuss it. COUNCILMAN PETERS I’d like to start out by saying two things. One, I mean we’ve been discussing this since October I think at the last minute to come up with something like this its not a bad idea but I think its maybe a little too late. Number two, we’re not and Mr. Manson made this very clear from the onset of this whole thing when we were in discussions we are not obligated to sell this thing to anybody. We still have the right to refuse any bid we made that perfectly clear. So we do have time to do some more studying on this but I think we need to get the ball rolling to put this out for bids so that we have some money coming in so we do not affect our general fund. You think people are upset now because we’re selling part of the Legends wait till we start taking the money that we’re supposed to be using for everything else to run this city and then watch the bullets fly. It’s not going to be very much fun for anybody and I don’t see any harm in putting these out for bids. We still have the right to refuse any bid for any amount. Am I correct Mr. Manson, did we not discuss that from the start. (Yes, we put that right in the ordinance.) So I just think we need we’ve been discussing this since October its time, its time to now start doing something about it. We need to act on it. COUNCIL PRESIDENT GAMBER Are there any other comments? Mr. Slagle? First, are there any other questions for Mr. Kaminski? If not you can step down, thank you. Mr. Slagle? COUNCILMAN SLAGLE – Yeah, I’d like to thank Kenn and couple other members because I met with them this morning. At least for the opportunity to get some more information on this. But I’m concerned about the mindset that’s come about that a board that’s appointed is making decisions when we as council members are the ones that are elected by the citizens of Massillon to make these decisions on finances and property of the City of Massillon. Whether this has been discussed since October or not even if I had been on council at the time I’d say that really a four month discussion on gutting the city golf course by selling part of it isn’t enough time. We don’t have nearly enough information to make these decisions as I look at the numbers I don’t see that the Legends is in that serious of a problem. If they get back up to the levels of their highest before they even added the extra nine they frankly should be covering not only their operating expenses but also those expenses that were used to build the second nine in the original course itself. If you look at it from a business decision which I don’t think we are at this point I don’t see how it makes good sense to ruin nine holes under any circumstance to gain what I would consider be a very minor amount of money. I really am concerned about the mindset that the problems with the recreation boards is all created by the Legends property. I wasn’t here and I wasn’t part of the whole extra taxing 3% but certainly the golf course is a recreation development in the City of Massillon. Just as the rec. center is a recreation development in the City of Massillon and if the city is going to operate either of them as businesses then we should look at both of them in the sense of what we’re making in terms of revenues coming in and expenses going out. We shouldn’t be picking on one over the other in my opinion. I just think that without asking other golfers without trying other efforts before we get into this. I disagree once we put this thing out to the public domain number one if it’s not a unanimous vote that’s going to send a signal to the developers. Number two, even what you put out there and you vote for ii, its going to be hard to pull back and say “gee, now I’ve changed my mind because the money isn’t it should be or the money’s not enough”. I just don’t see why we’re putting it out now. We’ve got the money coming in from the other apparently from the sale of Genshaft to get us by this one year with and I can’t believe we put a budget together and if I voted for a budget that didn’t have money in it to develop the golf course in terms of advertising and getting it out there to the public for the year 2008 then I certainly didn’t look at that budget very well. But it was a viable going golf course and from what I understand if you take away these holes and you do what we’re doing it even with the remaining holes its not likely to be the same viable 18 holes that we had prior to that. This certainly in my opinion takes a lot more than the rec. board decision making abilities on this to come to these conclusions. I would agree with Councilwoman Catazaro-Perry whether it’s a blue ribbon committee or something else but we need to entertain far more ides in terms of making sure that this golf course is either viable or not viable and deciding how we take the next step after that before we take what I consider to be a premature act of passing this legislation. COUNCIL PRESIDENT GAMBER Is there anyone else who’d like to make a comment. Mr. Manson? COUNCILMAN MANSON Yeah, first of all, I’d like to say I attended a meeting Wednesday at the invitation of the auditor and the parks and rec. and all five recreation board members were there. I was kind of led to believe last fall when we were looking at some of these things that they were not in support of doing of this. I can tell you they’re 100% in support of this you know proposal. I hear a lot of talk about Genshaft my concern is we may not even sell Genshaft for a year. Retail sales in December were down; we were told it was retailer that’s looking at that. I know how developers are they can pull funding at any time. So we can’t I don’t feel count at all on the Genshaft sale. That may or may not transpire. So I think we have to attack this in all of the ways possible this is one of them at least go out there and see if there is somebody interested. We have to continue to pursue the Genshaft thing. We dumped this on the parks and rec. and right now the parks and rec. department and you know what they’re supposed to be doing for the city is suffering because all this money is going to the golf course. We’re still having to subsidize some of it out of the general fund besides what parks and rec. is doing for it. I am a golfer I’ve played that course regularly I probably played 200 rounds out there and you know it bothered me some of those holes are there because they were favorite holes of mine of them. But I believe that you know a lot of people feel that adding the third nine was wrong well maybe it was, maybe its time to reorganize this golf course and get a handle on it. Since we added this third nine and I’d have to ask the auditor or the mayor they would know I don’t think the golf course has made enough money to cover its operating expenses and debt in year. If they have I’d be surprised. COUNCIL PRESIDENT GAMBER Mr. Manson, please don’t turn around and ask him. COUNCILMAN MANSON Well, I’d like to know is it covered any year. COUNCIL PRESIDENT GAMBER Bring them forward if you’d like to speak to them. COUNCILMAN MANSON Alright, Mr. Mayor, could you come to the podium please? How many years has the golf course since it went to the 27 holes covered all operating expenses and debt? MAYOR CICCHINELLI – It hasn’t. COUNCILMAN MANSON Any at all, none. So Mr. Slagle you’re talking about getting it back to you know where it generates enough revenue. I think with the golfing the way golfing is slowing down on a nationwide basis right now I think its unreal to expect us to get that kind of revenue out of the golf course. That’s my opinion, its just an opinion. When you said earlier… COUNCIL PRESIDENT GAMBER Alright, we’re looking for discussion between council members, Mr. Manson. COUNCILMAN MANSON Okay, but I well he commented on that and I just wanted to address it. COUNCIL PRESIDENT GAMBER I understand. That’s right. COUNCILMAN MANSON And I don’t believe that you know we realistically all we can do is look at the revenue that’s been generating and try to make a guess at what its going to generate this year. It could maybe a little higher or it could maybe a little lower, but I don’t think it’s going to significantly change one way or the other. COUNCIL PRESIDENT GAMBER Thank you. Is there anyone else who would like t make comments before I go around Mr. Slagle again? Mr. Mayor, thank you. Mr. McCune? COUNCILMAN MCCUNE As it’s been mentioned and we’ve been discussing this since October I believe. I honestly believe that Mr. Kaminski and the rec. board have done and the Mayor and his administration have done the due diligence as its been presented to us. I agree with Councilman Peters in that we need to head this off as quickly as possible to stay out of the general fund. I also believe that with the $48,000 minimum bid that we have in the ordinance that we have protected ourselves. We also have the ability to say “no”. So I really believe we ought to move forward tonight with this but however that does not mean that we can not go forward with Councilwoman Perry’s suggestion or Councilman Slagle’s suggestion to look into some additional due diligence to look at other avenues. But I don’t believe that we need to throw a stop sign up on this ordinance tonight. I think we should go forward with it and we can continue to look at other options as we go down the road. COUNCILMAN TOWNSEND I agree with Councilman Slagle this blue ribbon committee that Councilwoman Catazaro-Perry presented I think it’s a good idea but there is a question of time. Mr. Kaminski just stated that we have six to eight weeks. I don’t think we have enough time to form this I never had a problem with getting the people in the fourth ward together but I really don’t think we have enough time for this. Also I agree with Councilman Maier who stated that we should table this for the next work session. We have been discussing this since October but I think we had the best discussion about 20 minutes. That was the best discussion I feel that we’ve had since the proposal was brought up. But I do agree with Councilman Maier I think we need to table this until the work session so we can further discuss this and then put it up for vote at the next council meeting. I’m finished. COUNCIL PRESIDENT GAMBER Thank you. Mr. Slagle, your second set of comments. COUNCILMAN SLAGLE – I think what’s been raised is what concerns me is that we do not have anyone here present that’s talked to us that’s run a golf course. To tell us why the Legends can make a $1.1 in 2002 and have us be dropping down we’re making suppositions that its due to decline in golf perhaps we can lower rates. Perhaps we can do other innovative ways to get people out to the golf course. What I don’t understand was that some point there was 40,000 rounds of golf being played at the Legends. What’s being predicted now is based on 30,000 rounds of golf which is frankly just keeping a full 18 busy over the golf season not counting the other nine. There are other ways to deal with this than selling city property and its strikes me that if we would get some assistance on this with knowledgeable people. I don’t know what happened to Craig Immel nor do I know what happened to the groundskeeper that apparently based up on what we’ve heard we’re getting the course back into a very nice playable condition yet they’re not here. Yet both of them were experienced in managing golf courses and keeping the grounds straight. I’m not going to get into why they’re not here that’s not relevant to me. What’s relevant to me is none of us have the experience to understand why we have a golf course now that we’re saying is doom and gloom when we don’t know if that in fact is true. It seems to me that we owe the City of Massillon and the constituents that vote for us not for the parks board but vote the nine people here that we find out exactly what’s happening at the Legends, what can be done and if this is in fact the only alternative then we come back and revisit that possibility. COUNCILMAN MANSON Mr. Kaminski I think would like to make some comments. PARKS & REC. SUPERINDENTANT KAMINSKI – Mr. Slagle, the statement that you just made regarding the two employees that are not here is not accurate. The director of golf is no longer here, the groundskeeper is here and has been here for two years and is still employed by the city. COUNCILMAN SLAGLE – Alright, then I stand corrected. Is he here to talk to us about does he know about golf management? (Yes, he does) Then can he come before us so he can give us his ideas on what can be done? PARKS & REC. SUPERINDENTANT KAMINSKI – Absolutely and that’s the same thing that we did at the recreation board as well. COUNCILWOMAN CATAZARO-PERRY I’d like to bring our law director forward, please. Mr. Stergios, I asked you this before at a work session and I’m still concerned about it. I’m not exactly sure I believe everything you said, but I’d like to ask again you know are we in the position to being sued by any of these people that have purchased homes over there thinking that they purchased a home on a golf course? LAW DIRECTOR STERGIOS – To the best of my knowledge they did not purchase any home or real estate by the City of Massillon. They bought it from private developers who I believe got the land from us. So someone could always file a lawsuit does it stand a significant chance of succeeding I would say probably not. We didn’t sell them land and we never promised to keep the golf course there forever. But you know the possibility does exists and I think I said that as part of the answer before. But we never represented to my recollection any guarantee that these houses would be on a golf course. We own the course; someone else sold them the house. So it’s not a perfect answer… COUNCILWOMAN CATAZARO-PERRY But I mean have you reviewed the contract to see if that was language was in their contract or you know are we I just want to make sure that we’re not in any risk at all. I not see any contract, so… LAW DIRECTOR STERGIOS – I have I honestly have I’ve never seen any of the agreements or anything that we did when we sold developers land. I’m not really sure who bought what and what was already there without the mayor might be able to help me but… Well, I mean I guess I never looked at any of those they predate me. COUNCILMAN TOWNSEND What about the lifetime members? Is there a possibility that they can file lawsuits considering I don’t know what the contract looks like, what it says? But if someone purchased a lifetime member when the 29 holes were there and that’s what you know purchased the lifetime membership for could there a possibility of some lawsuits then? LAW DIRECTOR STERGIOS – I would have to see the contract that they signed when they bought them, but I am told that there’s provisions in there that address if we sell the course and so forth. But I think I asked somebody to get me copies and I haven’t I’ve never seen I don’t know what was done when they sold them those. No one ever showed it to me or ran it by me, but I don’t think there’s anything I don’t know I have to see it. Some of them may have been bought when we only had 18 holes too I’m not sure on that either I don’t know the names and dates I need a list. COUNCILMAN MANSON The one meeting we attended up at Lillian Beane that came up the developer was there and he tried to tell us that we guaranteed them golf course view but he would not allow me to see his agreement. He held it but he would not allow it. So I asked Mr. Kaminski that and he said what the agreement was and I don’t know you can tell me if I’m wrong not or you can clean it up. That we had guaranteed some help with some infrastructure because the drainage off of that property does drain through the golf course. Now… PARKS & REC. SUPERINDENTANT KAMINSKI – That’s correct. COUNCILMAN MANSON That’s my understanding. COUNCIL PRESIDENT GAMBER Are there any other questions for the law director? Thank you. Are there any other comments or questions at all? Mr. Peters? COUNCILMAN PETERS I’d like to reiterate that we still have time to answer a lot of these questions. All we’re doing is getting this thing rolling so we can set out and try to get bids to see if anyone is interested in buying the land. That is what the ordinance is for. COUNCILMAN HERSHER Councilman Peters stole most of my thunder I was just going to say I don’t think we should take from any of this discussion about some of these other options that we can look into if we decide tonight if we act on this ordinance specifically its just this is one thing for this body to look into as far as fixing this problem. It doesn’t keep us from looking into any of these other things while this out to bid. So this is just part of this body doing in a sense all of its homework towards working on this issue. I know that’s basically what Councilman Peters said. COUNCIL PRESIDENT GAMBER Alright, I’ll recognize Councilman Townsend in a minute, but also part of the process of the bid process is that this is a five week period. You know once the supposed this ordinance would pass tonight it does have to be advertised at least once a week for five weeks. So you do have that amount of time built in. Mr. Townsend? COUNCILMAN TOWNSEND You stated five weeks and Kenn mentioned six to eight weeks to react. I guess one of the questions that has been nagging at me is that if we pass we pass this ordinance what is the likelihood or the chances that we’re going to tell someone no? I hear that I’m constantly hearing that we still have the authority to turn it down if the people come with the bid. But what are the chances that’s going to happen? I don’t think its going to happen, but a lot of people are saying that I just don’t see that happening. But I’m hearing it all the time but I just don’t see that. So that’s more of a comment not a question. COUNCILWOMAN CATAZARO-PERRY You know I hear everyone saying “oh, it’s just to go out to bid, it’s just to get the ball rolling”. But you all know that once that ball starts rolling we’re not going to stop it. Everybody here knows that and I think that’s a huge concern I think this is really a snowball effect. I think this is a you know just push everybody out of the way this is what we’re doing and that’s all that there is to it. I think that’s so unfair to the citizens and I think that’s so unfair to the City of Massillon. I really think that we should table this tonight and I know everybody says six weeks, six weeks, bologna we have time to spend and we need to take that time and spend it and do this the right way. So I really would like to see it tabled, pull this committee together they can work quickly we’ve done it before with the budget advisory committee. They don’t have to listen to the recommendations there’ll just will be recommendations from this committee. I think that is the due diligence that our citizens deserves. COUNCIL PRESIDENT GAMBER Alright, I think we’ve logged plenty of conversation. The chairman Mr. Mang has asked this to come forward for a vote I will asked the Clerk to begin the roll call for a vote. ORDINANCE NO. 127 – 2007 WAS PASSED BY A ROLL CALL VOTE OF 5 YES, 4 NO. CATAZARO-PERRY, MAIR, SLAGLE AND TOWNSEND VOTED NO. ORDINANCE NO. 7 2008 BY: COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT COMMITTEE Authorizing the Mayor of the City of Massillon, Ohio, to enter into a contract with Stark County Regional Planning Commission for Housing Rehabilitation Services in the City of Massillon, Ohio, and declaring an emergency. COUNCILMAN MANG The past ten years the city has utilized the Stark County Regional Planning Commission to help us with bid specs and work write ups and etc. The cost of this annual contract is $15,000.00 it is payable under the city’s community development block grant program. It’s much needed its something that our people rely on and also it’s really a great benefit to the citizens. COUNCILMAN MANG moved for suspension of the rules and passage, seconded by Councilman McCune. The rules were suspended by a roll call vote of 9 yes. ORDINANCE NO. 7 – 2008 WAS PASSED BY A ROLL CALL VOTE OF 9 YES. ORDINANCE NO. 8 2008 BY: ENVIRONMENTAL COMMITTEE Authorizing the Director of Public Service and Safety of the City of Massillon, Ohio, to accept the dedication of a 20 foot wide sanitary sewer easement on Out Lot 1044, and declaring an emergency. COUNCILMAN HERSHER This is a first of two ordinances tonight for accepting sewer easements. This one is on the west side of Erie Street Route 21 north of Warmington Road. The request was approved by the Planning Commission at their January meeting. COUNCILMAN HERSHER moved for suspension of the rules and passage, seconded by Councilman Slagle. The rules were suspended by a roll call vote of 9 yes. ORDINANCE NO. 8 – 2008 WAS PASSED BY A ROLL CALL VOTE OF 9 YES. ORDINANCE NO. 9 2008 BY: ENVIRONMENTAL COMMITTEE Accepting the replatting of Part of Out Lots 569, located on the west side of Millennium Blvd SE, north of Navarre Road, and including the dedication of a proposed sanitary sewer easement in the Neocom Industrial Park, in the City of Massillon, County of Stark, State of Ohio, presently on file in the office of the City Engineer, and declaring an emergency. COUNCILMAN HERSHER This is our second sewer easement and replat. Also was approved by the Planning Commission at their January 9th meeting. This is located on Millennium Blvd in the Neocom Industrial Park. COUNCILMAN HERSHER moved for suspension of the rules and passage, seconded by Councilman Peters. The rules were suspended by a roll call vote of 9 yes. ORDINANCE NO. 9 – 2008 WAS PASSED BY A ROLL CALL VOTE OF 9 YES. ORDINANCE NO. 10 2008 BY: ENVIRONMENTAL COMMITTEE Authorizing the Law Firm of Bricker and Eckler LLP and the Law Director of the City of Massillon, Ohio, to commence legal proceedings against Infilco Degremont, Inc., Smith Environmental, Inc., and CTI Engineers, Inc., by the filing of a Complaint in the Court of Common Pleas for Stark County, Ohio, concerning various legal claims which the City has against such defendants with regard to the design and construction of upgrades to and expansion of the Massillon Regional Wastewater Treatment Plant, and declaring an emergency. COUNCILMAN HERSHER This ordinance as we talked about it at our work session is to authorize the Bricker and Eckler to file suit regarding the upgrade and expansion and renovation at the Wastewater Treatment Plant. Because this action we believe it has to be filed before the 28th of January. I know the law director is here if we do have questions. COUNCILMAN HERSHER moved for suspension of the rules and passage, seconded by Councilman Manson. The rules were suspended by a roll call vote of 9 yes. ORDINANCE NO. 10 – 2008 WAS PASSED BY A ROLL CALL VOTE OF 9 YES. ORDINANCE NO. 11 2008 BY: STREETS, HIGHWAYS, TRAFFIC & SAFETY Authorizing the Director of Public Service and Safety of the City of Massillon, Ohio, to sign a proposal with URS for professional engineering services for the design of certain intersections in the City of Massillon, and declaring an emergency. COUNCIL PRESIDENT GAMBER This is the ordinance that the gentleman referred to earlier. Mr. Peters? COUNCILMAN PETERS First reading. ORDINANCE NO. 11 – 2008 WAS GIVEN FIRST READING. ORDINANCE NO. 12 2008 BY: STREETS, HIGHWAYS, TRAFFIC & SAFETY Accepting the replatting of Part of Out Lots 373 and 491, located on the south side of Walnut Road SE, east of 16th Street, and including the dedication of existing right-of-way areas for Walnut Road SE, in the City of Massillon, County of Stark, State of Ohio, presently on file in the office of the City Engineer, and declaring an emergency. COUNCILMAN PETERS First reading. ORDINANCE NO. 12 – 2008 WAS GIVEN FIRST READING. ORDINANCE NO. 13 2008 BY: STREETS, HIGHWAYS, TRAFFIC & SAFETY Accepting the replatting of Part of Out Lots 691 and 940, located on the south side of Nave Road SE, west of Veterans Blvd, and including the dedication of existing roadway areas, in the City of Massillon, County of Stark, State of Ohio, presently on file in the office of the City Engineer, and declaring an emergency. COUNCILMAN PETERS First reading. ORDINANCE NO. 13 – 2008 WAS GIVEN FIRST READING. ORDINANCE NO. 14 2008 BY: FINANCE COMMITTEE Establishing a fund entitled “Ohio Peace Officers Continuing Professional Training Fund, and creating line items within said fund, and declaring an emergency. COUNCILMAN MANSON We discussed this at last week’s committee meeting. This is nothing more than setting up an account so the police department can draw on it for training. COUNCILMAN MANSON moved for suspension of the rules and passage, seconded by Councilwoman Catazaro-Perry. The rules were suspended by a roll call vote of 9 yes. ORDINANCE NO. 14 – 2008 WAS PASSED BY A ROLL CALL VOTE OF 9 YES. ORDINANCE NO. 15 2008 BY: FINANCE COMMITTEE Making certain appropriations from the unappropriated balance of the Income Tax Capital Improvement Fund and the Forfeited Fund, for the year ending December 31, 2008, and declaring an emergency. COUNCILMAN MANSON Yes, we discussed this at last week’s…this was money was given to us by Perry for the completion of the 27th Street NE/Jackson Avenue NE project. The money has already come into us now we have to appropriate it and pay it back out. Wait a minute there’s a…I’ve got a mix up on materials I’ve got. Anyhow that’s what this is, this is the 27th Street project and this is to finish it up, Perry paid their share of this $14,000.00. It’s all we have to do is pay it out. COUNCIL PRESIDENT GAMBER Section 2? COUNCILMAN MANSON Section 2, oh, I’m sorry there’s where we’re at. My fault I’m still inexperienced here. This is money that is in the law director’s account this is forfeited funds and this is putting it all into an account so he can start spending it for travel, services and whatever. COUNCILMAN MANSON moved for suspension of the rules and passage, seconded by Councilwoman Catazaro-Perry. The rules were suspended by a roll call vote of 9 yes. ORDINANCE NO. 15 – 2008 WAS PASSED BY A ROLL CALL VOTE OF 9 YES. ORDINANCE NO. 16 2008 BY: FINANCE COMMITTEE Making certain appropriations from the unappropriated balance of the Parks and Rec. Fund, for the year ending December 31, 2008, and declaring an emergency. COUNCILMAN MANSON Okay, I’m going to talk about Ordinance 16 & 17 together here they apply to the same funds. This was $140,000.00 that advanced to the recreation department last December and it has to be paid back into the general fund no; simple as that. COUNCILMAN MANSON moved for suspension of the rules and passage, seconded by Councilman Hersher. The rules were suspended by a roll call vote of 9 yes. ORDINANCE NO. 16 – 2008 WAS PASSED BY A ROLL CALL VOTE OF 9 YES. ORDINANCE NO. 17 2008 BY: FINANCE COMMITTEE Making certain transfers in the 2008 appropriations from within the Parks and Rec. Fund, for the year ending December 31, 2008, and declaring an emergency. COUNCILMAN MANSON moved for suspension of the rules and passage, seconded by Councilman Hersher. The rules were suspended by a roll call vote of 9 yes. ORDINANCE NO. 17 – 2008 WAS PASSED BY A ROLL CALL VOTE OF 9 YES. ORDINANCE NO. 18 2008 BY: FINANCE COMMITTEE Making certain appropriations from the unappropriated balance of the Recycling Fund, for the year ending December 31, 2008, and declaring an emergency. COUNCILMAN MANSON Okay, this is money that was appropriated from the solid waste recycling fund to pay for recycling for the fourth quarter with a grant that will come in the amount of $29,000.00 to replace that and that’s all we’re doing. COUNCILMAN MANSON moved for suspension of the rules and passage, seconded by Councilman Hersher. The rules were suspended by a roll call vote of 9 yes. ORDINANCE NO. 18 – 2008 WAS PASSED BY A ROLL CALL VOTE OF 9 YES. ORDINANCE NO. 19 2008 BY: FINANCE COMMITTEE Making certain transfers in the 2008 appropriations from within the Recycling Fund, for the year ending December 31, 2008, and declaring an emergency. COUNCILMAN MANSON This is the same thing putting the money back into the account that it was taken out of to operate on in the fourth quarter. COUNCILMAN MANSON moved for suspension of the rules and passage, seconded by Councilwoman Catazaro-Perry. The rules were suspended by a roll call vote of 9 yes. ORDINANCE NO. 19 – 2008 WAS PASSED BY A ROLL CALL VOTE OF 9 YES. ORDINANCE NO. 20 2008 BY: FINANCE COMMITTEE Reducing the appropriations in the General Fund, of the City of Massillon, Ohio, for the year ending December 31, 2008, and declaring an emergency. COUNCILMAN MANSON Okay, we have two ordinances here that pertain to the same thing 20 and 21. So I’m going to talk about both of them and then I’ll act on them individually. What this is last year in our budget we approved the budget in the I guess the law department with a $29,000.00 grant that was supposed to be the domestic violence grant. I don’t understand how these work but once every five years I’m being told we don’t get that and this is the fifth year. So we have to remove that from last year’s budget and then we have to take it and place it into the law director’s budget. Then he will have to find funds to make up for that. Right, Mr. Stergios, would you like to comment on it Mr. Stergios? COUNCIL PRESIDENT GAMBER Are you calling the law director forward? COUNCILMAN MANSON Yeah, I’d like to have him make a comment on it. LAW DIRECTOR STERGIOS – With regard to 21 that is correct prior years we’ve had a grant from the State of Ohio for a prosecutor who’s specifically and only handles domestic violence cases. Historically we’ve received the grant for four years and then in year number five for no apparent reason we don’t get the grant, reapply and we will then again receive it. The grant is covered generally 75% of the salary of the prosecutor designated for domestic violence cases. We had 340 domestic violence charges in 2007. Any event we did not receive the grant this year so I’m moving the money around and have put that prosecutor back into the general circulation and now whoever’s courtroom a domestic violence case comes to that’s the person who gets it. So it’s more bookkeeping matter than anything. But we did not get all the money that we used to have either. So… COUNCILWOMAN CATAZARO-PERRY Mr. Manson stated that it was 2007 but it is 2008? LAW DIRECTOR STERGIOS – Its 2008, but I’d have to look it might not really be on a calendar year, but most of its 2008. COUNCILMAN MANSON What I said is that we put it in the budget last year in 2007 for the 2008 budget but its not there we don’t have it. So now we have to back and remove it from the 2008 budget. LAW DIRECTOR STERGIOS – I think you’re both saying the same thing. COUNCILWOMAN CATAZARO-PERRY Right, he actually said 2007 the first time. But that sounds right now. COUNCILMAN MANSON What I said in 2007 we approved the 2008 budget with it in and its not there. So we have to remove that. COUNCIL PRESIDENT GAMBER Alright, are we all clear on this? COUNCILWOMAN CATAZARO-PERRY Just wanted to clarify it, thank you. COUNCILMAN MANSON moved for suspension of the rules and passage, seconded by Councilwoman Catazaro-Perry. The rules were suspended by a roll call vote of 9 yes. ORDINANCE NO. 20 – 2008 WAS PASSED BY A ROLL CALL VOTE OF 9 YES. ORDINANCE NO. 21 2008 BY: FINANCE COMMITTEE Making certain transfers in the 2008 appropriations from within the General Fund, for the year ending December 31, 2008, and declaring an emergency. COUNCILMAN MANSON This takes care of the lost $29,000.00 grant we will have to find money within the General Fund to make up for it or like Mr. Stergios said he’s going to have to deal with that. COUNCILMAN MANSON moved for suspension of the rules and passage, seconded by Councilwoman Catazaro-Perry. The rules were suspended by a roll call vote of 9 yes. ORDINANCE NO. 21 – 2008 WAS PASSED BY A ROLL CALL VOTE OF 9 YES. ORDINANCE NO. 22 2008 BY: FINANCE COMMITTEE Making certain appropriations in the Capital Improvement Fund, of the City of Massillon, Ohio, for the year ending December 31, 2008, and declaring an emergency. COUNCILMAN MANSON I intend to give this first reading, but this is what Mr. Kaminski was talking about earlier when he talked having to pay for last year’s some of last year’s bills that we haven’t paid. After the meeting with the Mayor it was decided to try to transfer or we will transfer $105,000.00 out of Capital Improvement that will be returned eventually. So we don’t need to discuss it tonight. We will discuss it next Monday. ORDINANCE NO. 22 – 2008 WAS GIVEN FIRST READING. ORDINANCE NO. 23 2008 BY: FINANCE COMMITTEE Making certain transfers in the 2008 appropriations from within the Capital Improvement Fund, for the year ending December 31, 2008, and declaring an emergency. COUNCILMAN MANSON First reading. ORDINANCE NO. 23 – 2008 WAS GIVEN FIRST READING. 7. UNFINISHED BUSINESS 8. PETITIONS AND GENERAL COMMUNICATIONS LETTER FROM OHIO DIVISION OF LIQUOR CONTROL REGARDING A TRANSFER OF LIQUOR LICENSE FROM LUCKY’S RETAIL MANAGEMENT LLC 1630 DEUPER BLVD NE MASSILLON OHIO 44646 TIMOTHT MURPHY TO MAGGIORES INVESTMENT INC DBA MAGGIORES DRIVE THRU 5 1630 KEUPER BLVD NE MASSILLON OHIO 44646 COUNCIL PRESIDENT GAMBER Alright, Mr. Maier, that’s yours; you’ve got a copy of that? (Yes, sir). 9. BILLS, ACCOUNTS AND CLAIMS A. INDEPENDENT - $708.93 COUNCILMAN MANSON I move that we pay the bills, seconded by Councilwoman Catazaro-Perry. Roll call of 9 yes to pay the bills. 10. REPORTS FROM CITY OFFICIALS A). POLICE CHIEF SUBMITS MONTHLY REPORT FOR DECEMER 2007 COPY FILE 11. REPORTS OF COMMITTEES COUNCIL PRESIDENT GAMBER Committee meetings will be next Monday the 28th. I’d also like to mention for the new members we do have a notice from the Ohio Municipal League regarding seminars for newly elected. Do you both have those? Alright, I very strongly recommend that you attend that council will pay the bill for you. So if you’re going to go let us know at the earliest opportunity please. 12. RESOLUTIONS AND REQUESTS OF COUNCIL MEMBERS 13. CALL OF THE CALENDAR 14. THIRD READING ORDINANCES AND RESOLUTIONS COUNCILMAN PRESIDENT GAMBER – We’ve already handled Ordinance No. 127 from last year. ORDINANCE NO. 127 2007 BY: COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT COMMITTEE Authorizing the Director of Public Service and Safety of the City of Massillon, Ohio, to advertise for and receive sealed bids, and enter into contract with the highest bidder for the sale of approximately 51 acres located at the Legends Golf Course, in the City of Massillon, Stark County, Ohio and owned by said City, which is not needed for any municipal purpose, and declaring an emergency. ORDINANCE NO. 127 – 2007 WAS ALREADY HANDLED. .SECOND READING ORDINANCES AND RESOLUTIONS ORDINANCE NO. 2 2008 BY: PARKS AND RECREATION COMMITTEE Authorizing the Director of Public Service and Safety of the City of Massillon, Ohio, to enter into a contract with Lake Region Oil, Inc., for the installation of a gas well at Community Park and another at Oak Knoll Park, and declaring an emergency. COUNCILMAN TOWNSEND We discussed this last week at our work session. I believe Mr. Burner came in and answered a few of our questions. Actually when he left I was satisfied so if there are no other questions. COUNCILMAN TOWNSEND moved for suspension of the rules and passage, seconded by Councilman Peters. The rules were suspended by a roll call vote of 9 yes. ORDINANCE NO. 2 – 2008 WAS PASSED BY A ROLL CALL VOTE OF 9 YES. 16. NEW AND MISCELLANEOUS BUSINESS 17. REMARKS OF DELEGATIONS AND CITIZENS TO MATTERS NOT ON THE AGENDA 18. ADJOURNMENT COUNCILMAN HERSHER – I move that we adjourn, seconded by all.
|
©Copyright 1998 - present City of Massillon.
All Rights Reserved
Designed and Maintained by Imaging
2000 Web Design